1 00:00:06,960 --> 00:00:12,320 JEREMY: Hello and welcome to another episode of Eat This Podcast with me, Jeremy Cherfas. 2 00:00:14,000 --> 00:00:17,960 A few days ago I decided to give myself a treat. 3 00:00:18,360 --> 00:00:25,760 I left the house just before seven in the morning, took a bus to the main train station and got on the fast train from 4 00:00:25,760 --> 00:00:33,920 Rome to Bari. I was on my way to Polignano a Mare, a small town a little way south of Bari, 5 00:00:33,960 --> 00:00:40,040 on the Adriatic coast of Puglia. It's a stunningly beautiful little town, 6 00:00:40,040 --> 00:00:43,280 perched on cliffs above a clear blue sea. 7 00:00:43,600 --> 00:00:47,800 You've probably seen it on travel sites and holiday brochures. 8 00:00:48,400 --> 00:00:56,080 But what brought me here was a new book about the food and ingredients that make Puglia so special. 9 00:00:56,520 --> 00:01:04,230 FLAVIA: My name is Flavia Giordano and my book is called Puglia, in Italian Storia di Ingredienti Cucina Territorio, 10 00:01:04,350 --> 00:01:09,470 and in English, A Cooking Journey through a Land and its Unique Ingredients, 11 00:01:09,990 --> 00:01:13,470 published by Ziczic Edizioni in Polignano. 12 00:01:14,190 --> 00:01:22,390 JEREMY: I found it interesting, in the book, that you spent time living in Sweden before you came back here. 13 00:01:22,950 --> 00:01:31,190 And I just wonder when you were in Sweden, what was the one thing about Puglia that you really missed? 14 00:01:37,270 --> 00:01:45,710 FLAVIA: I didn't know until I came back because when I was in Sweden, I felt like 15 00:01:47,230 --> 00:01:51,550 from the cooking perspective, everything was possible. 16 00:01:51,870 --> 00:02:01,740 So I thought I was cooking Apulian style because, I mean, the 17 00:02:01,740 --> 00:02:09,540 techniques were Apulian but the fresh ingredients, I always source them locally. 18 00:02:09,540 --> 00:02:18,449 So I adapted the cooking technique to their local potatoes, to their local asparagus, 19 00:02:18,449 --> 00:02:26,260 o n Apulian recipes, which to me worked. 20 00:02:26,580 --> 00:02:35,740 But when I came back to Puglia, I realized that what I missed was the context, 21 00:02:35,900 --> 00:02:40,620 because, I don't know, it's the same thing. 22 00:02:40,660 --> 00:02:47,660 You can have a tiramisu in Stockholm, but when you have tiramisu in Roma, 23 00:02:47,700 --> 00:02:53,140 it's another thing. Or when you have tiramisu in Veneto, is another thing, 24 00:02:53,180 --> 00:02:59,440 is the context. You can have. I mean, every dish can -- almost every dish -- 25 00:03:01,000 --> 00:03:10,680 you can cook it abroad. But here the context and also the ingredients you can find makes 26 00:03:10,800 --> 00:03:12,640 it a completely different experience. 27 00:03:12,640 --> 00:03:17,560 So I feel like I was back on my place. 28 00:03:18,600 --> 00:03:21,240 JEREMY: And is that why you wrote the book? 29 00:03:22,360 --> 00:03:25,240 FLAVIA: I think so, because I started to ... 30 00:03:27,120 --> 00:03:36,640 I had an idea to write a book about Italian ingredients, but i couldn't make it while I was in 31 00:03:36,640 --> 00:03:46,400 Sweden. But when I came back to Italy and to Puglia, I felt like I was in my natural habitat, 32 00:03:48,080 --> 00:03:55,320 and the energy. And also, you know, you go to the markets -- and I always go to the market in Polignano -- 33 00:03:55,320 --> 00:04:04,870 and I meet nonnas, and also my man that sells me vegetables, 34 00:04:05,470 --> 00:04:09,230 always come up with an idea, a recipe, a suggestion. 35 00:04:09,270 --> 00:04:16,390 So when I talk about the context, I'm talking about this, the social part of food, 36 00:04:16,550 --> 00:04:25,110 the interaction that makes a market interesting to shop from, not only because you have better ingredients, 37 00:04:25,110 --> 00:04:28,750 but also you can talk, you can share ideas. 38 00:04:28,910 --> 00:04:33,710 And the other thing I always do while we are, while I'm here in Puglia, 39 00:04:33,830 --> 00:04:41,590 I always visit the producers. So I go exactly to the source of the ingredients. 40 00:04:41,590 --> 00:04:44,670 And so this is a completely different thing. 41 00:04:45,150 --> 00:04:52,990 JEREMY: Puglia. For a lot of people, for a lot of tourists, Puglia is more, it's the heel of Italy, 42 00:04:52,990 --> 00:04:56,140 it's more the Salento. But it's much bigger than that. 43 00:04:56,180 --> 00:05:00,620 Can you describe for me the geographical region of Puglia? 44 00:05:01,900 --> 00:05:11,540 FLAVIA: Yeah. So Puglia, as you said, is the high heel, il Taccho d'Italia, and it's a very long region. 45 00:05:11,780 --> 00:05:20,420 So in fact, when you are driving by car in Italy and you see for the first time in the province of Foggia, 46 00:05:21,260 --> 00:05:27,420 the panel says Puglia, you get excited, and because you feel, okay, I'm finally in Puglia. 47 00:05:27,580 --> 00:05:36,460 And then, if you have to arrive to Bari or to Lecce, you have to calm down because it will take a while in your travel. 48 00:05:36,460 --> 00:05:43,340 So it's narrow and long as a region and very diverse. 49 00:05:43,460 --> 00:05:53,090 And also, if you consider just the coast, it's more than 850 kilometers of coast, 50 00:05:53,690 --> 00:06:02,970 and as length like 400 kilometres. So very, very long, almost the half of the length of Italy. 51 00:06:03,290 --> 00:06:08,330 And it's divided in different provinces . 52 00:06:08,570 --> 00:06:14,410 So on the upper part we have the area of Foggia with the Promontorio del Gargano. 53 00:06:14,690 --> 00:06:23,730 A nd this is , I mean, to simplify, it's a large pianura, a large plain, 54 00:06:24,890 --> 00:06:31,890 tavoliere. And since we are talking about food, it is mainly known for cereals , 55 00:06:32,730 --> 00:06:40,810 for wheat and durum wheat. Then we have this backbone is called Le Murge, 56 00:06:41,010 --> 00:06:50,810 that goes from the province of Barletta-Andria-Trani, continues in the area of Bari and goes up to 57 00:06:52,550 --> 00:06:58,190 the core. We have Bari, I mean the main town. 58 00:06:58,390 --> 00:07:00,990 And then we have Lecce. So we have ... 59 00:07:01,190 --> 00:07:11,030 And of course in the other side, because the majority of these towns are placed geographically on the Adriatic 60 00:07:11,310 --> 00:07:19,950 Sea, while the other province, the province of Taranto, is placed on the Ionian Sea. 61 00:07:20,230 --> 00:07:29,294 JEREMY: And do the different regions have very different cuisines, very different culinary 62 00:07:29,294 --> 00:07:34,470 habits, or is it more constant through the whole region? 63 00:07:35,830 --> 00:07:43,750 FLAVIA: Of course there are, there are ... It's a big difference in the different provinces, 64 00:07:43,790 --> 00:07:47,430 also because this is linked to biodiversity. 65 00:07:48,270 --> 00:07:55,140 Puglia is known for a tapestry of different vegetables. 66 00:07:55,500 --> 00:07:59,140 And when I say this, it's really different. 67 00:07:59,180 --> 00:08:05,100 Talking about, for example, the unripe melons in the area where we are, 68 00:08:05,140 --> 00:08:11,340 Polignano, Fasano, they are called barattierre and they are a specific one. 69 00:08:11,340 --> 00:08:17,700 They are round, while if you go down to Otranto and the Lecce province, 70 00:08:18,020 --> 00:08:26,580 they are called meloncella and they have another colour, because here the melon is more green and has a different flavour. 71 00:08:26,580 --> 00:08:33,740 So it makes sense that from different produce you can end up with different dishes. 72 00:08:34,420 --> 00:08:42,500 JEREMY: So is there like a typical dish from Foggia or a typical dish from Lecce? 73 00:08:42,860 --> 00:08:48,300 FLAVIA: T here is a recipe, it's very dear to my heart, it's the pancotto fogliano, 74 00:08:48,540 --> 00:08:55,170 which is a soup made using stale bread and vegetables. 75 00:08:55,450 --> 00:09:03,850 Normally leafy vegetables, as a wild chicory, cichoria sylvatica, and potatoes. 76 00:09:03,890 --> 00:09:09,450 And this is specific of the area of Foggia. 77 00:09:09,610 --> 00:09:17,330 While in Lecce they have a very nice shape of pasta, which is called Sagne Ncannulate, 78 00:09:17,690 --> 00:09:26,530 which are like ribbons, carnival ribbons, and they are normally served with 79 00:09:27,690 --> 00:09:32,570 tomato sauce, or sometimes even with chickpeas. 80 00:09:33,050 --> 00:09:42,690 And this is a pasta shape, Sagne Ncannulate, linked to San Joseph because Saint Joseph 81 00:09:42,850 --> 00:09:50,240 was a carpenter. And this pasta looks like a wooden ribbon you make as a ... 82 00:09:50,240 --> 00:09:52,920 JEREMY: ... Oh, when you're planing the wood, yes, to make it smooth? 83 00:09:52,960 --> 00:09:54,480 SPEAKER3: Yeah, exactly. 84 00:09:54,520 --> 00:09:57,040 JEREMY: Let's let's go back to the Pancotto. 85 00:09:58,880 --> 00:10:03,160 Foggia is famous for wheat. Good bread as well. 86 00:10:03,240 --> 00:10:08,440 So do you think this is part of the respect for even stale bread? 87 00:10:08,440 --> 00:10:09,840 That it must find a use. 88 00:10:10,440 --> 00:10:13,600 FLAVIA: Yeah. We we have a big respect for stale bread. 89 00:10:13,720 --> 00:10:18,920 I mean, you know for sure the expression cucina povera. 90 00:10:19,120 --> 00:10:23,680 So cucina povera , in Puglia , is a must. 91 00:10:24,200 --> 00:10:28,400 And it's also because to the quality of the ingredients. 92 00:10:28,400 --> 00:10:37,160 I discovered that you cannot use stale bread in the US because it becomes mouldy before it ... 93 00:10:38,080 --> 00:10:43,760 you can make it stale bread. While for us we use stale bread for making pangrattato, 94 00:10:44,280 --> 00:10:48,510 like breadcrumbs, or we mix it in frittatas. 95 00:10:48,670 --> 00:10:55,790 So there's a lot of respect for this, and love and creativity. 96 00:10:55,790 --> 00:11:00,950 So it's really having a few ingredients, making great dishes. 97 00:11:01,550 --> 00:11:11,470 JEREMY: And coming back to pasta shapes , another of the pasta shapes that's very much associated with Bari is the orecchiette. 98 00:11:12,030 --> 00:11:15,290 People say orecchiette is a little ear . 99 00:11:15,290 --> 00:11:18,590 T o me, i have to say, it doesn't look like an ear. 100 00:11:19,470 --> 00:11:25,550 I don't know why they're called orecchiette. They could be called little cups or little ... I don't know. How does a pasta get 101 00:11:25,550 --> 00:11:31,510 associated with a place so strongly that orecchiette, all the women in Bari, 102 00:11:31,550 --> 00:11:37,110 it seems to me, are on the street and the pasta shape they're making, it's almost all orecchiette. 103 00:11:37,310 --> 00:11:40,030 Well, how do you explain that? 104 00:11:40,590 --> 00:11:43,750 FLAVIA: I mean, it's ... Orecchiette is iconic. 105 00:11:44,230 --> 00:11:53,690 A dish of Bari and Puglia. But Bari has a particular technique also in shaping this, 106 00:11:53,930 --> 00:12:00,290 because you can shape orecchiette just flipping the dough over your thumb. 107 00:12:00,770 --> 00:12:07,490 So reversing the dough. But what we do in Bari is special. 108 00:12:07,530 --> 00:12:16,690 It's like a tricky movement you do with your no thumb but the two index fingers 109 00:12:18,730 --> 00:12:26,090 and the blade. So we make a specific movement that you have to go to Bari Vecchia to see it and see the ladies. 110 00:12:26,690 --> 00:12:35,970 They do it and it's unique. And this technique is called arco basso because arco basso -- 111 00:12:35,970 --> 00:12:38,117 or in dialect from Bari Vecchia, ?? 112 00:12:38,117 --> 00:12:47,840 -- it means low arch, because this is in the area right in front of the castle, 113 00:12:48,240 --> 00:12:57,960 where there is a small arch, where there's a community of of women that lives there and make orecchiette. 114 00:13:00,640 --> 00:13:05,880 JEREMY: But are they doing it just because their grandmothers did it, and their grandmothers did it? 115 00:13:08,560 --> 00:13:15,800 FLAVIA: I mean, yes and no, because now it's something that evolved a little bit. 116 00:13:16,280 --> 00:13:21,320 Now it's turning more also into a bigger economy. 117 00:13:21,320 --> 00:13:27,960 So it started for, like, housewives doing pasta and selling to the neighbours. 118 00:13:28,160 --> 00:13:34,720 And now they are scaling up and they are also facing for the first time ... 119 00:13:35,040 --> 00:13:44,910 I mean, they are taking up so, more seriously, also as entrepreneurs because I mean now they open their knowledge and 120 00:13:44,910 --> 00:13:49,950 their technique and their food to tourists from all over the world. 121 00:13:49,990 --> 00:13:59,070 They visit Bari to see them. They need to pay attention to specific rules about food industry. 122 00:13:59,070 --> 00:14:03,390 And also, when you run a company, you have to pay taxes. 123 00:14:03,390 --> 00:14:06,070 So it's a scale up, it's scaling up. 124 00:14:06,070 --> 00:14:12,470 And now we are in the moment when this is shifting from a tradition that used to be, 125 00:14:12,950 --> 00:14:20,990 I mean, housewives repeating a tradition, to something that is becoming part of the economy. 126 00:14:21,590 --> 00:14:28,910 JEREMY: T he pasta here, all of the pasta in Puglia, I think, is flour and water only. 127 00:14:29,670 --> 00:14:34,990 There's no enriched egg pasta like there is in the north of Italy. 128 00:14:35,310 --> 00:14:38,630 I s that cucina povera or is it ... 129 00:14:39,230 --> 00:14:43,420 Is there a reason why the pasta here does not have eggs. 130 00:14:43,700 --> 00:14:45,620 FLAVIA: Yes, because we don't use flour. 131 00:14:47,060 --> 00:14:47,460 JEREMY: Ah. 132 00:14:48,660 --> 00:14:58,220 FLAVIA: Yes. Because technically, technically durum wheat makes semolina, which is 133 00:14:58,260 --> 00:15:06,460 another thing. Because if you see flour, farina, is associated to wheat, 134 00:15:07,180 --> 00:15:11,100 grano tenero, while we are using durum wheat. 135 00:15:11,700 --> 00:15:20,100 So that's why. The structure of flour made of wheat and semola, semolina, 136 00:15:20,620 --> 00:15:29,980 made of durum wheat is different. So you use the egg to hold together the dough 137 00:15:30,740 --> 00:15:40,280 because the gluten is powerful, but up to a point, while the structure of durum wheat flour, 138 00:15:40,520 --> 00:15:49,640 semolina flour, is different. It has more gluten and also gives the dough more texture. 139 00:15:49,800 --> 00:15:58,520 And if you compare the pasta, the egg pasta, using flour, and pasta using durum wheat and water, 140 00:15:58,800 --> 00:16:01,920 they have a completely different texture. 141 00:16:01,920 --> 00:16:08,440 One is more soft and supple, while the other one is more plastic, like a Play-Doh, 142 00:16:08,480 --> 00:16:17,160 like clay dough. And the way we use it is completely different, because the pasta, 143 00:16:17,200 --> 00:16:24,560 the egg pasta, is made ... I mean, you make sheets, you make lasagna. 144 00:16:24,560 --> 00:16:27,280 And then you can cut it. You make pappardelle, tagliatelle. 145 00:16:27,520 --> 00:16:34,240 While the durum wheat pasta is more like a sculpture, you can you make orecchiette, 146 00:16:34,240 --> 00:16:38,280 it's like small bowls. Cavatelli, it's like a small cavity. 147 00:16:38,630 --> 00:16:42,270 So it's more plastic and the outcome is completely different. 148 00:16:43,190 --> 00:16:45,790 JEREMY: Basics. Absolute basic ingredients. 149 00:16:46,390 --> 00:16:54,750 One of the really interesting things in your book is that you go into the different kinds of olive oil, 150 00:16:54,790 --> 00:17:01,190 or the different kinds of olive varieties, and how they have different uses in the kitchen. 151 00:17:01,550 --> 00:17:09,230 I think people are really interested in that, because for most people don't even know the names of the varieties. 152 00:17:09,550 --> 00:17:16,270 So can you explain where these varieties fit into the kitchen? 153 00:17:18,270 --> 00:17:28,190 FLAVIA: So extra virgin olive oil. For many years, centuries, it has been seen more as a fat 154 00:17:28,390 --> 00:17:38,340 to cook the food with, more than something to enhance a dish or something as an ingredient with an 155 00:17:38,380 --> 00:17:48,180 own personality. While people understand the differences between a Sangiovese and 156 00:17:49,220 --> 00:17:56,100 Negroamaro, they don't know, as you told, the difference between Parenzana and Coratina. 157 00:17:56,140 --> 00:17:59,820 They just don't pay attention, because it's just a fat. 158 00:18:00,140 --> 00:18:09,860 But if you pay attention to this and try to go a little bit behind a label and actually 159 00:18:09,900 --> 00:18:16,260 explore more with your senses, there's much more to ... 160 00:18:16,380 --> 00:18:19,980 It's like another universe opens up to you. 161 00:18:20,340 --> 00:18:32,260 And for example, you can understand a coratina pairs perfectly with a chickpea 162 00:18:32,300 --> 00:18:42,210 soup or with a bean soup, because it's a very intense fruity, with that bitterness that matches very well with 163 00:18:42,210 --> 00:18:50,010 this kind of hearty soup, while, for example, you are not going to use it on a delicate fish tartare because you are 164 00:18:50,010 --> 00:18:53,450 going to kill that fish once again. 165 00:18:54,690 --> 00:19:04,330 So if you understand that every oil, every extra virgin olive oil, as much as the wine has 166 00:19:04,730 --> 00:19:13,730 a specific personality, I think you can really level up your way of eating and cooking Italian food. 167 00:19:14,410 --> 00:19:18,170 JEREMY: The problem is that most people, when they buy oil, the oil they buy, 168 00:19:18,650 --> 00:19:25,570 it may be labelled extra virgin olive oil, but it doesn't contain a variety name . 169 00:19:26,090 --> 00:19:28,450 It's impossible to find these things out. 170 00:19:29,050 --> 00:19:35,240 FLAVIA: Yeah, this is something, because the labels, I mean the labeling, is another issue. 171 00:19:35,280 --> 00:19:41,200 It's complicated and I don't want to talk about this, but for example, 172 00:19:41,240 --> 00:19:51,160 there are a lot of olive guides, like there is Slow Food that every year issue a new guida agli oli. 173 00:19:53,600 --> 00:20:00,800 There is F los Olei, another competition that makes this excellent guide. 174 00:20:00,800 --> 00:20:10,685 There is Gambero Rosso. So what I first of all, I suggest, to start to browse a little bit 175 00:20:10,685 --> 00:20:18,880 these guides and also try to be curious about the olive oil producers, 176 00:20:18,920 --> 00:20:22,960 the artisanal ones. Talk to them, ask them which ... 177 00:20:23,000 --> 00:20:27,560 So this is a mono cultivar, which kind of, which variety of olive? 178 00:20:27,600 --> 00:20:30,840 Y ou used which one in this? And taste. 179 00:20:31,040 --> 00:20:38,540 So this is the only way you can get a new knowledge about the extra virgin olive oil. 180 00:20:38,740 --> 00:20:42,900 And it's more like personal that buying in a supermarket. 181 00:20:42,900 --> 00:20:49,620 So that's why you are going to buy something alive, more than a product. 182 00:20:50,580 --> 00:20:56,700 JEREMY: It's interesting that olive oil seems to be going in the same direction as wine, 183 00:20:56,700 --> 00:21:06,660 just a little bit later, because it used to be that the wine in Puglia was part of the great Italian wine 184 00:21:06,660 --> 00:21:12,260 lake in the olden days, and most of it went somewhere else to fortify different wines. 185 00:21:12,260 --> 00:21:18,740 But now the wines have become well known, well produced. 186 00:21:19,020 --> 00:21:20,740 So how did that come about? 187 00:21:21,100 --> 00:21:30,660 FLAVIA: So yes, you're right. In Puglia, we prefer to sell our grapes instead of making 188 00:21:31,300 --> 00:21:40,530 our own wines. This is linked to the end of the 19th century, where a 189 00:21:40,730 --> 00:21:49,450 region as the Piemonte, the Toscana, but also foreign markets like France, 190 00:21:49,490 --> 00:21:59,010 Austria, wanted to have grapes to make good blends, especially for red wines, 191 00:22:00,730 --> 00:22:06,730 to accomplish different things. First of all, grapes like Negroamaro, 192 00:22:06,890 --> 00:22:11,890 Primitivo and Maiello [?], they are very rich in colour. 193 00:22:11,890 --> 00:22:16,050 So if you add this to your blend, they are rich in colour. 194 00:22:16,090 --> 00:22:25,650 Then they are rich in sugar. So they, it means they are rich in alcohol and 195 00:22:25,690 --> 00:22:31,560 also they are grapes that can be aged. 196 00:22:31,720 --> 00:22:41,640 Not every grape can be aged, because sometimes there are wines that you have to drink in maximum two years and then they start 197 00:22:41,640 --> 00:22:46,680 their decline, while Apulian wines they become famous, not ... 198 00:22:46,720 --> 00:22:51,040 Apulian grapes, they become famous because they could make ... 199 00:22:51,080 --> 00:22:57,400 give complexity and body structure, colour, alcohol to these precious, 200 00:22:57,720 --> 00:23:06,320 precious wines of France. So in Puglia now there are still people, there are still entrepreneurs, 201 00:23:06,480 --> 00:23:10,920 companies, that sell grapes or they sell wines in bulk. 202 00:23:11,200 --> 00:23:21,080 But from the 90s we are starting to producing our quality wines and not only the red 203 00:23:21,080 --> 00:23:26,240 wines, but also the white. I mean, we have fantastic white grapes. 204 00:23:26,520 --> 00:23:33,503 So it's ... there was a shift in culture and also in the way of making, 205 00:23:33,503 --> 00:23:35,270 being entrepreneurs. 206 00:23:36,030 --> 00:23:40,390 JEREMY: Presumably the people of Puglia always made their own wine for drinking at home. 207 00:23:40,790 --> 00:23:46,710 D o they now consider the Apulian wines worthwhile? 208 00:23:52,750 --> 00:23:59,910 FLAVIA: There is a little bit of Questione Meridionale, I think, in what we do. 209 00:23:59,910 --> 00:24:07,110 So the fact that we are ... We feel like, a complex. 210 00:24:07,110 --> 00:24:11,310 We are not enough. We are not enough industrialised. 211 00:24:11,310 --> 00:24:14,150 We are not enough rich. We are not enough. 212 00:24:15,550 --> 00:24:21,550 But I think now, now we are more proud of what we do and what ... 213 00:24:22,310 --> 00:24:25,310 on our quality. We want to put a label. 214 00:24:25,470 --> 00:24:35,090 We want to identify what we do, because before, Puglia was a region with very few DOC wines. 215 00:24:35,130 --> 00:24:38,410 Even now we have just four DOCG wines. 216 00:24:38,410 --> 00:24:41,170 So it's a process that is taking time. 217 00:24:41,170 --> 00:24:47,450 But now we want to put a label also because the quality of our raw ingredients, 218 00:24:47,530 --> 00:24:57,450 our material is excellent. We are learning to highlight what we do and I think now we are 219 00:24:57,450 --> 00:25:01,170 ... I mean, we have another mindset. 220 00:25:01,370 --> 00:25:07,410 We are, we value more what we do. 221 00:25:09,170 --> 00:25:16,970 JEREMY: Flavia Giordano, author of Puglia: A Cooking Journey Through a Land and Its Unique Ingredients. 222 00:25:18,410 --> 00:25:23,850 As you heard, Flavia offers food, tours and culinary experiences in Perugia. 223 00:25:24,170 --> 00:25:33,960 Her website is SpaghettiABC.com. And of course, I'll put a link in the show notes at EatThisPodcast.com. 224 00:25:35,720 --> 00:25:41,640 If those tours are anything like the time I spent with her, which included a delicious, 225 00:25:41,640 --> 00:25:46,000 simple lunch, i'm sure they're fabulous and fun. 226 00:25:47,600 --> 00:25:56,040 My thanks to Flavia and her lovely little Italian greyhound, Carla, for making my flying trip to Puglia so worthwhile. 227 00:25:56,400 --> 00:25:59,120 A day definitely well spent. 228 00:26:07,520 --> 00:26:12,600 For now though, till the next time from me, Jeremy Cherfas and Eat This Podcast, 229 00:26:12,760 --> 00:26:15,080 goodbye and thanks for listening.